Curse

Goonter · Oct 18, 2005, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Im going to throw an idea out here to see if it sounds good to yas.

There as been some commotion over ranger spiking.
Understandably, quickshot, dualshot and preps make a formitable combo that probably should remain itself untouched.
The problem that crops up is when interrupts are thrown into the spike mix.

The skills that interrupt have been givin an aftercast, ok, that helps alot.
To a certain extent though, interupts are still used in quick fire combos.
So my idea is to change the mechanics on how bow interrupts work.

Once you select to do an interrupt you draw your bow for a shot and hold for a casttime of maybe 1 sec.
Once your holding youll get an icon like a mintained enchantment on your skill bar.
Double click the icon and let the arrow fly.
Keep the aftercast, but heres the thing....
Your mobilty is only dampered when drawing your bow and when firing.
You can move while your bow is drawn and during the aftercast.
And now, while setting up to interrupt you cant chain a combo.

The biggest problem I can think of is that this would be a big visual clue.
It would take some skill to draw and release fast enough to make it look like a normal shot. Or, you could just baby sit a target and look obvious.

Im think, if left untouch, the ranger hate will continue and we will continue to suffer spike/interrupt spam and maybe people will work out counters.
Personally, I dont think its a hugh problem (when compared to e/mo smitting and spirit spam and even IWAY) but its a voiced concern, and this is one way I think could add to the challenge and skill of being an interrupting ranger without subtracting from the spiking power that rangers should have when in numbers.

Does this sound like a decent change to how interrupting works?

bobrath · Oct 18, 2005, 05:41 PM // 17:41

But isn't part of the usefullness of an interrupt the fact that it "casts" faster then the action you're trying to interupt? Adding this extra animation and user side action in fact nerfs the ranger interrupts. Would you also suggest modifying mesmer interrupts so that the caster has to hold their hands in the air until a double click lowers them and finalizes the casting?

Yichi · Oct 18, 2005, 07:00 PM // 19:00

/not signed

too many people complain about ranger interrupts and all it will do is take a good class that has already gotten the nerf bat, and nerf it some more. Like with every skill and build, there is a counter. Ranger interrupts can be countered like anything else. and the ranger spiking? "shields up" can effectively disrupt the majority if nto all of the ranger spike. seen it happen way too many times

Goonter · Oct 18, 2005, 08:04 PM // 20:04

One of the cool things about GW is flexablity.
Nerfing in GW, imo, just means - try something else, not - youve wasted your time.

And countering aside, (I meant to be clear on earlier) ranger spike isnt the balance issue that other FotMs have been. To my knowledge, it isnt even uncommon. Its been around since beta and just made popular do to the punishing/savage shot upgrades that made spike/interrupt popular.

And yeah the usefulness of a interrupt is in its speed.
But if you think about it, this is...very fast. Just now its presision shooting.
You release and arrow and all you have is flight time to interrupt whatever.
But your waiting to release it.

This isnt an enchantment and the user interface shouldnt be treated as such. Thats cluncky.
But its not out of the question. Just double tap the skill. Once for draw and once more for release.

So putting out good dps and interrupting at will is favorable.
Then this shouldnt apply to every interrupt.

How about the two that, when used to interrupt, often relay on longer casting spells? Concussion and Savage.

Or think of it like this:

Aimed Shot
String your bow. If Aimed Shot hits, your foe is interrupted and is dazed for 8-16 secs if casting a spell.
cost: 20 cast: 1 recast: 20

Your still beating spells that cast 2 seconds. And, if your set up, your beating spells that cast in less.
Id use this skill over concussion shot for the cost even though the recharge is weaker. Plus,...it lets me daze monks (quick casting in general) easier due to setting up.

..it..makes since in my mind, and I play ranger all the time.
But... Its just an idea that cropped up in my mind after some pondering.

Valerius · Oct 18, 2005, 08:17 PM // 20:17

yeah man... there are just too many counters to Ranger Interupting... no reason to make it harder for us...

/not signed

Timoz · Oct 18, 2005, 09:22 PM // 21:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by MistressYichi

/not signed

too many people complain about ranger interrupts and all it will do is take a good class that has already gotten the nerf bat, and nerf it some more. Like with every skill and build, there is a counter. Ranger interrupts can be countered like anything else. and the ranger spiking? "shields up" can effectively disrupt the majority if nto all of the ranger spike. seen it happen way too many times

Its not a case of the nerf bat, its a case of balance.

Como Fort · Oct 18, 2005, 10:19 PM // 22:19

I don't know how you can say there are loads of Ranger interrupts...

Flame · Oct 19, 2005, 12:41 AM // 00:41

Distracting Shot, Punishing Shot, Concussion Shot, Savage Shot, Incendiary Arrows. Those are the interrupts that come to mind. Two are elite, one has a 25 energy cost (reasonably lowered to 15 with high expertise), and the remaining ones have fairly high recharge. I think the problem is that people are too stubborn to change their build, they simply want other builds changed until theirs is powerful.

Rangers are hardly ever used in PvP except in all-ranger teams as it is. Rangers are hardly ever used in PvE. Ruining interrupt like this will only make it harder for Rangers to find parties.

Shinomori · Oct 19, 2005, 02:23 AM // 02:23

And that's just what ANY ranger wants.

Yichi · Oct 19, 2005, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timoz

Its not a case of the nerf bat, its a case of balance.

Balance? how is it that someone cnat have a party member bring aegis? or any number of mesmer skills come to mind, as well as "sheilds Up" for warriors...... I mean come on here. there IS balance and there ARE ways to get around the interrupts. by adding more things to them and nerfing them somemore, rangers will be possibly almost extinct. they have had SO many nerfs as it is. Spirits, interrupt delays.... Do you want them to just be a pet train then, or is the only way someone with the R/x or x/R goign to get into a group is if hes a trapper (for pve and some holding builds) or an IWAY?

Como Fort · Oct 19, 2005, 11:36 AM // 11:36

IMO Rangers are the most powerful in the tombs, so long as there are 4/5 of them. They have Pets, spread mass conditions with Traps, have Interrupts and do the most damage most quickly with a single attack. Real underpowered eh dude ^^

Goonter · Oct 19, 2005, 01:14 PM // 13:14

hmmmm....

Ok, nm.

Personally, I think its sad that people are locked into a mindset that rangers can only get into teams with spikers that untilize interrupts for spike potentual.
Its like, they didnt even realize they could do it until the savage/punishing buff. And after the interrupt delay, now they realize a fraction of thier potentual but still, ...cant see past what other people are doing.

but whatever.

John Waffletord · Oct 19, 2005, 01:28 PM // 13:28

1 sec cast for interupts? what if you're trying to interupt something with a 1/4 or 3/4 sec cast? You'd be so late its not funny.

Sure you could still interupt things that take 2 seconds to cast, but if you're trying to shut down a monk, it would be damn near impossible. Mesmers with high fast casting would be owning everything, because no one can interupt them(except other mesmers). We'd see a huge increase in Me/Mo's with high fast casting too.

Not a good idea. If anything should be changed about ranger interupts it should be that you can fire a normal arrow during the delay after the interupt, but can't use any skills.

Yichi · Oct 19, 2005, 02:53 PM // 14:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flame

I think the problem is that people are too stubborn to change their build, they simply want other builds changed until theirs is powerful.

probably the best quote ive seen on all these types of threads.

Yes rangers are balanced. Wow pets. The only useful build that has used a pet in tombs is IWAY. Aegis stops that.... Interrupts, now have a 1 second cast time. try interrupting a monk or mes that is using a 1/4 sec cast time spell..... Oh you can spike with rangers, As ive said before so many counters to ranger spike. Air ele's blinding flash can works wonders....

So since there are ways around ranger spike as well, should we nerf them too? I mean that way everythings balanced

Goonter · Oct 19, 2005, 03:24 PM // 15:24

Ok, ok, 1 sec is waaay to much.
Just say, "3/4 or 1/2 second draw would be better" or add to the idea instead of closing your mind off to it completely.
....or not.

Anyhow, anyone that does probably knows this, but....

Interrupting 101

Bow interrupts take off in 1/2 second. Including reaction time and the flight of an arrow its particalurly challenging to interrupt 1 second skills.

Skills to watch: Rez sig. Healing sig. Ether Feast. Healing Seed. Troll Ungent. ...long list, but needless to say your looking at skills with at least a 2 second cast time.

Anything less than that takes specilization, good observation, or luck.

Specilization:
Lots of ways to do this. The obvious way is with the proper prep.
Choking gas, incendary arrows and maybe some combonation of spinalshivers/marksmanswager and a cold bow are all ways to continusly spam interrupting on a single target.
These methods are a bit sloppy.
They are not presicion and therefor, a smart caster will react like they have backfire on them,...stop casting (which is good). Or they will find shelter, time thier spells better or get an interupter on your preps if they have one as a counter.

There are preps and/or rituals that increase the speed of your arrow.
These can give you a good edge on stopping 1 second cast, but no garrentes.
Your edge increases with a short bow or just being in close range.

A number of skills increase your enemys casting time to a point where you can interrupt with ease.
Most of them mesmer skills and will open large oppertunites to interrupt fastcasting spells.
These are spells in the ballpark of 3/4 of seconds casting and up.
So before, when you could see but still miss Orison of Healing now, its much harder to miss with its 2 second cast.
Spells like Reversal of Fortune are still very hard to stop.

Often overlooked, natures renewal will make the common offensive/defencive lenchpins (curses/protection) easy to counter with interrupts.

Good observation:
Once you reconginze a pattern you can bet that by the time your arrow hits them, they will begin to activate a spell you want to counter.
An example of this is when healers/protectors spam Mend Ailment to get rid of conditions.
With a 3/4 casting time, your not going to hit it on reaction alone.
But if you observe that as soon as posion is applied, it is quickly removed, you can poison one or two targets and quickly fire an interrupt in the removers direction. There is a good chance (50/50) it will hit.
This is one example, but once you observe a pattern its your oppurtunity to exploit it.

Luck:
Just spam an interrupt and hope it hits. This is general a poor method for interrupting but your luck increases as you spam them.
Which you should for spike damage.

These is the basics right?
Rangers arent interrupting 1 second or less skills anyhow, unless by some method stated above.
And if the skill is not 1 second or less, its 2 seconds or more.
So 2 seconds is the basic window of oppertunity for bow interrupts.
Saying that rangers need to beable to interrupt...mesmer interrepts? (spells with 3/4 to 1/4 casting time) is pretty unreasonable.
And In all actually, by my proposed method, that would be more possable, by making interrupts a possable factor of flight speed alone.
Nerf or buff? This is a buff for presision interrupting and a nerf to interrupting/spike.

John Waffletord · Oct 19, 2005, 03:58 PM // 15:58

So you're saying, make it so you pull the bow back.. (1/2 or whatever casting time). Then It becomes an 'enchantment'. So, you can double-click when you want to shoot the interupt? Can you shoot inbetween pulling the bow back and double-clicking? Can you switch targets if needed?

This is a bad idea still. If you're thinking of a way to nerf the spike builds then go about it a different way. This would just ruin the ability for rangers to actually interupt. Ranger's don't need to interupt mesmer interupts (that is close to impossible), but for interupting things quickly, this would totally ruin it. Its almost as if you can interupt a rez signet if you have the bow already pulled back, but if you don't react right away (as soon as you can after the delay) after shot the interupt you had 'prepared' then you won't be able to interupt it again, and thats a 3 sec cast.

This would definitely not be a buff.

Goonter · Oct 19, 2005, 04:35 PM // 16:35

I changed my mind earlier.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goonter

This isnt an enchantment and the user interface shouldnt be treated as such. Thats cluncky.
But its not out of the question. Just double tap the skill. Once for draw and once more for release.

At a 1/2 second draw, it really doesnt change a thing. You just double tap instead of single tap your spike.
Then, there is the blaring visual cue with your bow drawn if you dont release it quickly. Its sort of a trade off, I guess, for having the speed of the interrupt increased.

I cant really say where the balance is in this idea because I cant test it.

But maybe someone at Anet cant test a single new skill (like the AimShot or something) and see how it goes over.
If its widely recieved, then maybe this single skill can keep its unique attributes. If not, then maybe it should be changed into what all the others are.

John Waffletord · Oct 19, 2005, 04:41 PM // 16:41

So all this does is make it so you have to click twice instead of once?

Goonter · Oct 19, 2005, 04:49 PM // 16:49

Thats what my idea evolved into.
Then I realized, "it really doesnt change a thing"

So this idea isnt without its faults. I cant really find its balance because I cant test it.

But the idea was for bow interruption to "take aim and shoot" with reasonable time to stop 2 second skills on the fly.
Not just, shoot without discrestion.